We have zero problems running under 1.6, and thanks to the JIT compiler we even have some 1.6-specific code behind a JRE version check to take advantage of the improvements.

I have a better reason for needing it: it’s called write once, run anywhere. We write Java code. We run it on Windows. We run it on Linux. We try to run on Macs, and the byte code is not compatible (it has the wrong version in it).

So: do we reinstall JDK1.5 on everything else, or just ditch the idea of using OSX?

The answer is simple… sorry, OSX users. And all because Apple can’t get their act together to update their JDK. *sigh*

If you for whatever reason need to have up to date JREs you should use an OS that the Sun reference implementation supports so that you will have access to new Java versions as soon as they are released. If you bought a Mac thinking that you’d have quick access to the latest JREs you didn’t do anywhere near enough research - Apple has always been slow to port JREs and probably always will be. Deal with it.

It is getting close to a year since you originally published this blog entry. Leopard is out and still not Java 6. Do you still believe that Java 6 is as insignificant as you originally thought and that Mac’s tardiness is still completely acceptable. I’m working on a project that is build on Java 6 and I’m being forced to run VMWare on my Mac just so that I can do my work. I am personally disappointed in Apple for not staying up-to-date. Especially since Java 6 has been out for over a year now. Sure I have this pretty OS that looks good in the dark, but if it does not functionally meet my needs is it really worth it?

Your profile says that you are working on “community building”. Your “tone” in responses here does not suggest that.

I believe that if someone developed a Java 6 web start application today it would work fine on all the major OS’s out there except the Macintosh. I believe it would prompt them to download the Java 6 JVM and then they would be off and running. I haven’t tested this but from what I have read it is true. Please let me know if that isn’t correct.

I also appreciate Apple creating useful API’s but if the cost of the those API’s means long delays in the release of newer JVMs and ties it directly to the OS then I don’t think it is unreasonable to start a discussion on the merits of that VS doing what all the other OS’s do.

Thanks again
Steve Michael

Regarding the linking of java and the OS, on OS X unlike any other OS, java is a core component, not an additional piece of software. Additionally, OS X is probably the youngest OS out there, so Apple are regularly adding not just nice-to-have APIs, but really darn useful APIs that Java (particularly the AWT/Swing/Java2D stuff) can take advantage of. There are a lot of reasons Apple chose to take this route and the java-dev archives have a great myriad of discussions about it. You really should go read through the archives if you are interested in this stuff, every question you’re asking and every comment you’re making has been made and debated multiple times in the past. There’s no koolaid involved here, just a need to understand that Apple works based on Apple’s interests, not yours and that there are various technical and business trade offs that can be and have been made.

Finally, QuickTime is tied to the OS and is a core component just like Java. There are QuickTime updates outside of OS releases just as there are Java updates outside of OS releases but both are actually updating core parts of the OS but those parts are clearly identifiable as QuickTime or Java.

Again this is all speculation, but if Apple ties the JVM so close to the operating system then unlike Windows, Solaris, and Linux it will be impossible for a Java developer to know what JVM is on a Macintosh because he or she won’t know what OS they are on. The developers would have to assume it is a very old one and thus the cool new Java applications will be cut off from Mac users unwilling or unable to upgrade to 10.5 As I mentioned above if someone is running Ubuntu, Redhat, Solaris, Windows 2k, Windows XP or Solaris 9 or 10, they can go get the latest JVM (in this case 6) for their platform and be off and running. It appears to me that Apple should look at taking a similar approach to the JVM and not tie it so close to the OS. Perhaps there is some underlying reason they need to do this, but seeing that Linux, Solaris and Windows don’t do this I can’t come up with a great reason why. The only thing I can think of is that they are still getting their hands around the Intel chip and the OS. Either way I hope that they decouple the JVM from the OS upgrades and thus make it possible to get Java 6 on 10.3, 10.4 and 10.whatever. I do understand that there does come a point where you can’t support the latest code on an old OS but I think that the other three OS’es do a nice job and I would think it would do Apple a world of good to mimic those JVM implementations. I believe you can even get Java 6 for Windows 2000 and that is a very old OS. I also believe you can get Java 6 for RedHat 7.3 and that also is a very old OS. It doesn’t make much sense to me why Apple needs to be different, and perhaps there is some great reason for it. I would love to hear it, and my only fear is that Apple doesn’t view Java as “some old ball and chain” that they really don’t want in their OS. I don’t believe this is the case, but time will tell. “If” Apple does decide to get out of the JVM business, then I hope they give the code they have out to the community and perhaps Sun would take it on, much like they did Linux. As you mentioned it wouldn’t be trivial, but I also would imagine that Sun would do a good job with it. It would also be GPL’d and “we” could talk about it without all the NDA stuff.

Lastly (going to bed).
I see this as little different than Quicktime or Flash. Those don’t appear to be tied to the OS, granted maybe they are… I do know they don’t tie ITunes to the OS, so why Java? It doesn’t make much sense to me, and I am obviously an Apple fan since I just bought one, but I am not a fanboy, so I don’t drink the Apple koolaid…

Thanks again
Steve Michael.